Matt Harmon:
With all the challenges that the current climate has created in higher education, we catch up with university vice president, Bob MCCA about how Monmouth is dealing with those issues with president Patrick Lehe, I'm faculty member, Matt Harmon, it's time yet again from Monmouth weekly. Thanks as Zoes for joining us,

Matt Harmon:
We have hit double digits in our Monmouth. Weekly would love to be able to say that we're doing it with everyone around a, a table sitting in chairs and being able to look at one another. But as the COVID 19 coronavirus pandemic continues to, uh, hopefully, maybe turn a little bit of a corner and there's a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel. We are still practicing our so, uh, social distancing, or as we like to say, at least one president Patrick Lehe away from one another I'm faculty member, Matt Harmon joined as always by university president Patrick Lehe, and our theme of vice presidents continues today. Uh, looking forward to spending some time with Bob McKay, the vice president for enrollment management. Gentlemen, I say a good afternoon to both of you president Lehe. I'll give you first word today. Uh, just checking in seeing how things are going on campus and making sure that everything is, is okay up there in west long branch.

Patrick Leahy:
Yeah, it's all good here, Matt. Nice to be with you. Uh, nice to have Bob join us for this week. Um, you know, I, and since we were together last, I, uh, had to train up your colleague Eddie a CAPTE. So I'm glad to be back here with a real professional Matt.

Matt Harmon:
Well, listen, I, I won't lie and say that I didn't watch that. I was actually on my way home. Believe it or not, uh, was up in Vermont to go check on a house that, that we own as a family. And I watch that on the way back. I think you're skirting the issue a little bit. I, I, I seem to remember if memory is serving me correctly, that you, you said how happy you were to be with a professional like him instead of having to do this weekend and week out with me.

Patrick Leahy:
I say that to all my broadcast partners. Uh, so yes, I, you know, I'm joking in both like both situations. I were so privileged here at Monmouth to have, uh, professionals. I mean, this like you and with, and Eddie and others, uh, doing our broadcast work.

Matt Harmon:
Yeah. I thought last week it was, uh, it was good to, to have you on with, uh, the folks over in athletics. Um, they are doing their, their best with all of their content and social media. They have, uh, stuff going on twice a week with some of the coaches and members of the athletic department, staff coaches, and everybody else trying to keep everybody, uh, hopefully ready for the fall, which is a perfect opportunity to bring, bring in our guest today. He is the vice president for enrollment management. As I just mentioned, Bob MC MCCA, who's been with Monmouth for a, a, a long time. Most of the vice presidents at the school have, uh, Bob, this situation has been crazy for everyone. You know, we talked with Maryanne, nay, we've talked with RA CADA, we've talked with Marilyn McNeil, all vice presidents for you. I would think that this has offered an opportunity. Uh, and I use that word maybe lightly because I'm sure it's been very stressful worrying about not necessarily how things were gonna finish the, the spring semester, but the concern of how we're gonna run the summer program. What's the situation gonna be like for the fall. So as I wish you a good afternoon, and thank you so much for giving us some time, um, I, I would think you have had some sleepless nights just trying to think about how this is all going to come together for the benefit of the university.

Bob Mc Caig:
Yeah, Matt, uh, thanks for having me. I will never use the phrase working around the clock again lately. Um, it has been, uh, just, uh, I know this word is overused, but an unprecedented stretch for, uh, everyone in enrollment management across the country. In fact, Uh, we were, uh, you know, obviously within enrollment, we were worried about two pieces of enrollment, the fall enrollment, which is just huge in terms of the university's, um, financial health, as well as summer enrollments. And one of the first things, uh, we did, uh, as the pandemic unfolded, as we gave our families more time, we moved our deposit deadline back to June 1st, as it became increasingly likely that we were not gonna be able to do in person programs in April. And we thought maybe this pandemic would be a two to four week thing, and we'd be able to have in person programming in may. And then when that idea dissolved, we, and, and frankly, every other college and university in the country scrambled to move our in person programs, which we think we do distinctively well online. And, you know, my concern moving into that was can we be as good online as we are in person and really cultivate those relationships in an authentic way. So our families could feel a good fit with us and that these students might see them at Monmouth for the next four years. And we worked very hard on that, and we not only replicated those in person programs that we would've run in April virtually, but we also layered on those programs opportunities for families to have chats with the admissions director, with themes, with faculty, with our ambassadors, so that they could, uh, get the best feel for who we are, if they had only been on campus once or twice or not at all. And we believe that's, that's paid off. Um, right now we're down in deposits heading into that deadline of June 1st, but we're down just 1 36 from last year. And, uh, we still have, uh, close to 300 students who have told us they're still serious about us, but they're still deciding. So these last two weeks leading up to a deadline, whether it's May 1st and June 1st are always hugely important and they're particularly important, uh, this year. And I'm choosing to be hopeful,

Matt Harmon:
President Lehe. I, I wanna get your comment on that. Um, first answer from vice president MCCA, when you think of it, whether it's a hundred or I I'd even say a number is as low as 10, maybe even one, I mean, Monmouth has always been a tuition driven school. So trying to find, I, I I'd say right now, creative ways in order for, for incoming and even returning students to feel like, Hey, this is still the place for you. Um, ha has probably been a little bit of, of a challenge, correct?

Patrick Leahy:
It has. I mean, we're, we're gonna get so desperate that the, even the president is gonna, uh, answer questions, uh, from prospective students. Um, you know, we are tuition dependent, but even more important than that, I mean, our, our very mission lies in bringing students to this campus and, uh, giving them life, life transforming opportunities. And we want desperately to enroll robust classes so that we can get, can continue to live out our mission in a way that, that is so significant for those students and their families and, and the process serves our community well. So if you look at our numbers now, Bob just reported, uh, them, if you look at them in isolation, you would look at them and say, this is a first rate class that we have coming in in the fall. It's like our highest academically prepared class we've ever had. We're the highest, I think Bob, uh, underrepresented minorities that we've ever had or close to ever had. Yeah. Our P numbers are high again, which is an important part of who we are here at Monmouth. I mean, you look at it and you'd say, uh, this is a really, really strong class. I think we're just a little nervous that, uh, some of those might be, um, softer than normal at this time in this, in the cycle, but, uh, we're doing everything we can to, uh, make the Monmouth case. And, uh, and I'm hopeful that that will pay off for us in the fall

Matt Harmon:
Vice president. If I asked you this question, it, it might be a little bit of a loaded question. It would almost be like that, uh, D all the above, but, but what are you most concerned about right now, as we talk in, in mid to late may, is it students that are already part of the Monmouth community returning, or is it that freshman class, um, that you're anticipating as, as president Lehe just said being one of the best academic diverse type classes, or is it all of the above? We need to make sure on some level that everybody's still gonna be part of what we have going on

Bob Mc Caig:
D all of the above Matt, um, you know, here, we're in this very strange position of, you know, if, if the, if the enrollment cycle ended today, we'd be able to say we have the highest academic quality class in the university's history and the most ethnically diverse class in the university's history. Our honors programs are the second highest, our five year program, which allows students to get an undergraduate degree undergraduate degree in five years, those numbers are at record high. So it looks when you look at the key indicators, terrific, but as president Lehe remarked, it is soft. And right now our constituents, our incoming students and their families are looking for certainty. They wanna know that fall will be open, and that's a certainty we cannot provide. You know, we can tell them we are on this. We are developing every possible scenario, well thought through so that we have options, uh, come fall. If this, if there are state, uh, mandates for how we can open, but we can't give the guarantee that these students are, are, are looking for. So, you know, when, when, when Dr. Lehe gets on our call with our, with our, what we call our outstanding offer students, students who still have not committed, but are serious about considering Monmouth, we're gonna do our best to assure them that we're gonna do everything possible to open in the fall. And we're developing scenario planning to that end. And we will communicate with them the minute we know, but we still do have to wait for some, uh, state direction before we can give that certainty. So that's that I would say is foremost on my mind, but I, you know, I do worry about returning students as well. Right now, returning student registrations are pretty strong. You know, our, our students have registered for fall classes in high numbers. So, uh, we hope that they will indeed show up in September in high numbers. Um, but the decision as to how we return may indeed impact that we didn't mention earlier summer enrollments, but, you know, summer, summer's a great story that I hope tells the tale of, of fall a little bit, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, we were down more than 2,400 credits from last year in summer enrollments. And then after we made the decision to go fully online, we hald that deficit. And since having that deficit, our deficit from last year is less than 200 credits. Now it's it's negligible. And in fact, this summer's enrollments are actually higher than two summers agos enrollment. So that's actually a success story in the middle of the pandemic enrollment wise,

Matt Harmon:
You know, president Lehe. That was something that, uh, actually a great lead in from vice president MC. I was gonna throw you because the last we spoke about summer numbers, you were extremely optimistic that Monmouth, uh, wouldn't would, would not only get to where they've been in the past, but maybe exceeded because of, you know, changing the way that things are happening right now. And being able to offer classes in an online, um, environment that as a university faculty have been able to, let's say, test out during the course of this spring semester and now move it into the summer. Um, and listening to Bob, just talk right now, the summer numbers are, are encouraging. And hopefully that is something that will lead us right into a successful fall.

Patrick Leahy:
To me, it's very exciting that our summer numbers are as strong as they are real credit to Bob and his team for, um, promoting those courses the way they have and helped us, uh, close that gap, but also to our faculty members, many of whom, as you know, Matt have been teaching online in the summer for years now. And I think, uh, because we have no choice, we have a lot more faculty members who are gonna be moving to that, that type of delivery. And I think, uh, when they do this really well, they're gonna find that for certain students, at certain times in their academic progression online delivery is really a first rate way to deliver programming. I'm not saying replace what we do on campus. I'm just saying at certain times, summer courses, graduate students, um, online delivery is a, is a really important, uh, delivery mechanism. And, uh, that's, that's being proven this summer. And it's a, it's a, a really exciting part of, uh, this whole, you know, crisis situation,

Matt Harmon:
Vice president. K if, if I asked you how many, how many different, um, scenarios and plans you have either had on your desk or people have presented to you, you've come up with yourself in terms of ways to manage this situation. Um, is there even a number that you could throw out because, because the world changes every day. So what you plan for last week might not be even a consideration this week, and then what you plan for this week might be not a consideration next week and all the little variables in between. I would think at this point, it's almost one of those scenarios where everything is on the table.

Bob Mc Caig:
Well, I'll, I'll let, uh, president Lehe, uh, give you a number on the, uh, number of scenarios, but I, I will tell you Matt, through, from March 9th, uh, through a good bit of April, I, I, you know, I think many of us felt like the game was changing almost every 36 hours. Um, fluid does not, as a word does not do justice to how things have evolved and changed during the pandemic. Um, even in the last week, if you look at the different ways in which colleges are pretending to know how they're going to open in the fall, it's all over the place, federal guidelines for the cares act, for instance, changed every, we got updated guidance, I should say every three to four days, it's just been incredibly, uh, challenging for professionals like myself to keep up with. I can't imagine how the public is consuming all this. If they've got a, a student, uh, poised to enter college next year, but maybe president Lehe would, would like to talk about the, uh, the scenario planning we're doing for the fall.

Patrick Leahy:
I mean, there's probably a dozen, uh, legitimate scenarios. And I'll just give you an example. Uh, it made news a few days ago that basically on the same day, Matt, Notre Dame out in Indiana decided that they were gonna start their fall semester early because they wanted to start early and try to finish early. So they're gonna start, I think it's like August 10th, the same day, a really fine school in New York state at theca college said, oh, on the contrary, we're gonna start late, not until October 5th, so that we can give this pandemic more time to sort of flatten the curve if you will. I mean, it's all over the place. I mean, those are just two private institutions that have taken it upon themselves based on the, I guess, the guidelines in their respective states to just make a judgment call on what they think is best. And, you know, you have some institutions out west that have decided we're gonna go mostly, uh, online instruction in the fall. Other institutions here on the east coast saying, you know what, we're coming back to campus. We are gonna require, uh, personal protective equipment, but we're not gonna do social distancing because we don't have the physical capacity to teach the number of courses that we need to teach in that physical distancing, you know, social distancing manner, it's all over the place. And what we've said all along to Bob's point is we have to get comfortable with the uncertainty for now, because we don't wanna make decisions before the public health officials in this state provide guidelines for us. And the reason we don't is we don't want to be way outside on either end of the spectrum way outside of those guidelines, less, it put us in a, in a competitive disadvantage,

Matt Harmon:
Vice president MC MCCA. I mean, this, this just has to be, uh, <laugh>, I'll say lightly another challenge for you as the vice president for enroll enrollment management. I mean, when you look at it, the, the story and, and the challenges for especially private institutions over the course of the last several years have been, have been there financially for students and family, figuring out a way to afford, uh, four years on average, four to five years of that extra, um, education past high school. So this is almost created, uh, in a way, a brand new test case for people like yourself and those that work on your staff of thinking of ways to make sure that people still see the value in higher education at a, a mid-size private institution, a school like Monmouth.

Bob Mc Caig:
I think it's really important to, to consider what happened pre pandemic, as you suggest Matt, um, you know, in September probably a few months earlier, uh, this started to the, the tremor started, but in September, uh, and article called the great enrollment crash was picked up by Chronicle of higher ed and then went beyond Chronicle of higher ed to New York times, Washington post, uh, uh, wall street journal. And really the issue of the demographic slide went beyond the higher ed media into mainstream media. And the, the bottom line is that we're in an, an enrollment decline that will nationally, that will essentially go off a cliff in 2025. And, and that has everything to do with the great recession in 2008. And the birth rate going down beginning 2025 and how colleges and universities are going to repurpose themselves for a smaller, uh, uh, number of students coming into American colleges and universities. So this was a, a very, um, uh, amplified conversation in both higher ed and the mainstream media that only got, uh, had gasoline poured on it by, by the pandemic. And, um, mm-hmm <affirmative> so we've been, we've been running really hard for a, a long time wondering how we're gonna position Monmouth university in a place of strength for the next five years. So we're ready for that sharper demographic decline in 2025. So in the middle of that planning, we had a, a, a global pandemic that is really shaking higher ed institutions to the core. You know, how some of the more financially volatile colleges and universities survive this pandemic, it is a legitimate question and it, you know, how, what these, uh, institutions are gonna look like in, in one years is going to be a fascinating case study. I will say something that's, that's come out of this pandemic when I try to keep my own spirits up. And my, my, my group's spirits up to me, uh, to me, the, the pandemic has actually the silver lining for me is that it has affirmed the place of, uh, of ma of higher education as residential experiences, you know, eight years ago, the, the hot topic was Mo O CS massive open online courses. These were courses that were going to be offered for free to the masses, and it was gonna change the credentialing structure, and it was gonna put residential universities across the country, outta business. Guess what the MOS fail then there's this been this conversation for two to three years about the, the unsustainable rise in the cost of higher education and the value of higher education. And for me, this really, really disconcerting move movement away from a li liberal arts foundation, you know, seven years ago, what we were trying to do in American colleges and universities was get young people ready for one of the seven jobs they'll have in their lives, through critical reading, writing, and thinking. And that narrative's completely changed recently to go to college, to select the right major, to get the right internship, to get the right job upon graduation. That critical thinking, reading and and writing has, has become secondary. So when I read articles that say 95% of, uh, American college students want to come back to campus, it says to me that we're not dinosaurs, but we're not gonna be fossilized anytime soon, that there really is a place for residential American education, uh, in the future

Matt Harmon:
President LA, when, when you hear that and, um, hear vice president MCCA talk about not only the, the different challenges that exist in terms of recruitment and enrollment of students, but trying to continue to evolve. Um, I think that's a theme that you and I have been on over the course of almost these 10, 10 weeks. This been our 10th episode. So, uh, two and a half months since we started mammoth weekly of thinking how Monmouth can best be positioned to come out of this. I, I, I know a, a few episodes ago, you mentioned from a financial standpoint, Monmouth in really good shape because of the debt load that the school does not have in comparison with maybe some of the other schools that would be considered competitors, uh, in essence, but, but moving forward out of this, how does Monmouth in your eyes? And then I'll let, I'll let Bob comment on this as well. How does Monmouth position itself to be even in a better position to attract more students going into this in, in a position of strength coming out of a pandemic in which things like finances and health, and just the way that higher education is gonna be run, how does Monmouth evolve out of this?

Patrick Leahy:
I mean, we have so much to offer, um, that we've always felt like we have a, we have a competitive advantage against a lot of, other of our, a lot of, a lot of other, uh, peer institutions, Matt, and that will not change at all. I think there'll be a question that families might increasingly ask, which is how viable are you as an institution. Can, can I count on if I select, uh, Monmouth university? Can I count on you being around? Can I count on you continually making the investments to enhance the student experience? And we can say absolutely yes. In a way that I'm not sure all other colleges and universities, even some around us can say, um, we are, as I've said, many times, uh, much better financially sound than a lot of other institutions that, uh, that I think are dealing with this same, uh, crisis.

Patrick Leahy:
And remember, as Bob said, there was a crisis in American higher ed before the current crisis, um, to be in the Northeast part of the United States where the demographics are probably most moving against us in the entire country. It's also the most competitive market for higher education. I believe in the, in the entire world, probably in that there's a greater concentration of really first class institutions, you know, within 300 miles in any direction from the campus. And it's just a combination that is, is, is you don't don't need, I always say you don't need an MBA in order to realize that there's gonna be oversupply for sh for shrinking demand. So we have to be as savvy as we can to weather this storm, this current public health crisis to get through it and as strong a position as possible. And then I believe there are gonna be, uh, individuals in the marketplace. There are gonna be benefits to those institutions that, uh, survive this most strongly. We intend to be one of them. Now we have to make good decisions over the course of the next year or two in order to ensure that. But, um, remember we're an institution that was founded in 1933 as a junior college in the throes of the great depression. I mean, we have seen challenges, uh, through our, the course of our history and, uh, we've successfully navigated them. And we intend to do this again,

Matt Harmon:
Vice president MC MCCA, if you could follow up on that with, um, ha having the university marketing efforts essentially fall under your realm, how does Monmouth market themselves coming out of this pandemic to not only be competitive, but I I'll continue to say it. Um, I think an opportunity to, as president Lehe and I said a couple of episodes ago kind of get the idea that Monmouth is this hidden jewel on the radar screen of a much bigger audience.

Bob Mc Caig:
Yeah, Matt, I, I, I think we were strong going into the pandemic. We were starting to hit our stride. Uh, the, you know, there's such a thing as I'm sure, you know, is a, a phenomenon called reputation lag that it, it doesn't take very long to lose reputation, but it takes a long time to get one. And we've been a really good institution for a long time. And the market is just starting to understand that. And some of the, uh, Patrick Mary does this poll, uh, for us, uh, uh, biannually. And you can see clear, positive trend lines in folks around New Jersey, at least understanding who we are and how academically strong we are, that we're buoyed a bit by that we have a bunch more work to do, uh, for folks understand how distinctive we are, that the impactful opportunities that we offer, how we marry excellence and access in ways that very few institutions across the country marry them. So we have that strength going in, but I think it's equally important. And I, and I told folks, this, my folks, this at the beginning of the pandemic, I said, you gotta look at this as a clean state. We clean slate. We will be judged by the decisions we make during this pandemic. And I think under president LA's leadership, we have made arguably among the most student centered decisions in the country, find a moment in that every 36 hours of change, where we made a decision, the decision to refund, uh, tuition, a, a room board in parking, the decision to get the checks out, uh, early the decision to go online, the summer, the decision for flexible grading or the summer at almost every, uh, decision point. You can find a moment where students centeredness ruled the decision. And I think we'll be able to point to that and our marketing efforts. In fact, we're gonna do that on Thursday when we're talking to our offered students. Uh, and I think a a as I think some of our colleague institutions, um, struggle in the coming years, I think we actually have an opportunity to get stronger.

Matt Harmon:
President Lehe ask you this, um, as, as we start to kind of wrap up this week of, of our episode in mammoth weekly, um, thinking now, going forward for Monmouth, um, again, the, the, the idea of marketing, the idea of coming out of this in a position of strength. Um, I, I think the thing that everyone is probably most concerned about with the idea that the summer has already been committed to in a, in a fully remote situation is when do decisions get made for the fall? Because that will probably be, I would think, right. A pretty driving factor for students. Are they coming to Monmouth, uh, or, or are they gonna take a gap year or are they gonna delay their enrollment for a year? So in all of those scenarios, I'm sure yourself, vice president MCC MCCA, the rest of the, the cabinet, the board of trustees. That's kind of the question that right now in the middle of may is still very up in the air is a as to will mammoth be open, normally come fall,

Patrick Leahy:
It'll make for a, a, a very busy summer. Um, the goal at this point is to open as close to normal as possible, and still ensure that the safety, health and wellbeing of all of our constituents is our top priority. So we're, as Bob mentioned earlier, Matt, we're looking at all the different ways in which we can do that, so that we can restore the vitality and the energy and the enthusiasm to this campus, which is so typical of the Monmouth university campus. Um, I, I think you, you also know that I'm part of this campus restart committee, uh, here in the state of New Jersey. So I'm getting real time information on the considerations that the state is, is contemplating as well as where other colleges and universities are contemplating. So that will inform our decision. Um, we wanna be, we want to offer as clarity as quickly as possible, but we wanna do it in as measured away as possible. Like every decision we've made since basically March 1st, we, we didn't want to be, we wanted to have as much complete information as possible before making a decision that we think would be in the student's best interest and how we're gonna open in the fall is the latest, uh, decision that we have to make in that same manner. So, um, my hope is sooner rather than later, but probably not until June, maybe early July, are we gonna have, um, some, some greater clarity around what the fall's gonna look like,

Matt Harmon:
Vice president MCC. I want to thank you so much for coming on and, and giving us, uh, the information in, in this ever-changing world of not just the coronavirus COVID situation, the pandemic, um, but just for you a again, another hurdle in what's always been an extremely competitive situation anyway, trying to get and retain students at Monmouth to appreciate all the university, um, has to give and has to offer. And I'm sure this will be just another, uh, another one of those hurdles that you and your team will clear, and Monmouth will come out of this, um, more successful than the, than the school has been for as long as the school has been open.

Bob Mc Caig:
Thanks Matt, very much for, including me today,

Matt Harmon:
President Lehe appreciate your time as well. I thought this was, um, excellent information. You know, again, we've, we've said all of these episodes are up for anyone to listen to. I think this one, um, from a student perspective, especially if you are among those who sit on that fence as vice president McKay mentioned earlier, deciding whether or not you're, you're gonna come to Monmouth or not come to Monmouth, this would be the episode certainly, uh, for you to listen to and, and be involved with. And as you have continually said, if you have questions, make sure that you reach out and get in touch with somebody, including yourself at the university,

Patrick Leahy:
Including me@presidentatmonmouth.edu, I promise, uh, we will get good information to, to, to people who write in. Um, I'm so pleased again, Matt, to have, uh, this partnership with you so that we have a chance to talk through what's going on at our, uh, incredible institution. And I'm really pleased to have Bob on, uh, this week. Uh, he is a professional when it comes to, uh, enrollment matters in American higher education. And, uh, he and his team have just done remarkable work, uh, this spring. And I'm just so grateful to, to be a colleague

Matt Harmon:
Vice president, Mc Caig, continued, uh, health and success for you and your family will look forward to catching up and talking to you, um, soon in the future and, and hopefully being able to do it in the, uh, much Comier confines of the WMC X studio. Thanks again, Matt. All right. For vice president, Bob MCC MCCA in charge of enrollment management university, president Patrick Lehe, I'm faculty member, Matt Harmon. We thank you as always for giving us part of your day and time. You can find this episode on the Monmouth university website, mammo.edu, updated information for you there each and every day. Uh, also on SoundCloud, on iTunes, on Google, on Spotify, any podcast platform we are up and running. If you've got questions for us, feel free to email president Lehe. As he mentioned, you can email myself as well. Uh, we'll continue to roll through this and keep you updated with all Monmouth information again. Thanks for listening to episode. Number 10, looking forward to talking to you again next week.