Bob Edwards: I'm speaking with Catherine paren. Her new book is called food is love advertising and gender roles in modern America. It's about the radio, TV and print ads that stubbornly insist on placing mom in the kitchen and the grocery store aisles. Prego Ad: Oh, mama. Prego is the best. Oh my mom, we go, Prego won the test. Oh, mama Prego PRGO has success. Prego PRGO Prego, Prego Prego beat the rest. Big News for mamas taste. Test prove families clearly prefer the thick, rich taste of Prego traditional to these other sauces. Give your family the best Prego PRGO Perle, Pergo, Prego tasts the best Bob Edwards: These things are so funny. I'm sure the ad agencies didn't mean them to be Katherine Parkin: Well. I think they generally did not mean to be. I think it's looking back that we are in kind of shock disbelief at the kinds of things that they said, and, and some of them are decidedly, not funny, uh, as they threatened women while their husbands leaving home or blowing up their homes and, and someone, if they don't make the right foods or don't make them at the right temperature or what have you, generally, they, the laughs come with the unusual, uh, with the things that really shouldn't be happening. Like, as I suggested with men cooking that that was often played for laughs that they didn't know how to do it and that they had to follow the directions and we're still kind of screwing it up. And, um, so generally the humor came at the unusual Bob Edwards: Page 100 at the top. If you could, uh, read that for us and provide some sort of context. Katherine Parkin: If Lenton meals seem hard to plan, we mean the kind that please a man, then try a dish that never misses and win yourself a flock of kisses. Bob Edwards: Love it. Katherine Parkin: uh, one of the things advertisers did, uh, was try to persuade women to cook foods, to help make their families pious that, uh, women were given responsibility for ensuring the dietary, uh, rules of their faith. Uh, and this particularly fell to Catholic women, not eating meat on, on Fridays. And if they were going to make their families religious and, and adhering to their religion, then they needed to, uh, provide meals that would allow them to do that and not doing so would again, reveal to the society that they weren't upholding, uh, the structures of their faith. Bob Edwards: What you just read was from the canned salmon Institute, assuring that Catholic women would get kisses. If they served salmon, Katherine Parkin: Pleasing men is never far from any ad , whatever the, the outer message, the, the, the, uh, underlying messages, always that women need to find foods that men will eat. If they want them to adhere to the religious strictures, they need to find foods that the men will eat. Otherwise they're not going to, and women will risk, uh, not fulfilling their duty and risk, not getting love. I mean, they're also not trying to just show love, but also get love from their families. Well, Bob Edwards: They had to keep men healthy, too. Uh, women were putting their families at risk. If they didn't buy cream of wheat, Cream of Wheat Ad: Cream of wheat is so good to eat that we have it everyday. We sing this song it will make us strong and make us shout horay. It's good for growing dasies and grownups to eat. For all the manly breakfast you cant beat cream of wheat. Katherine Parkin: It really. Uh, I find one of the most Golling parts of, of the, the advertising and of society, generally, that women would have responsibility for, for men's health, that men were not independent actors, that they couldn't make decisions about what to eat themselves. That if women were cooking foods that were too salty or not healthy enough, that they were jeopardizing their family's health and particularly men's health. Um, and so this idea that they needed to take on that responsibility, that every purchase they made had these, uh, very large repercussions Bob Edwards: Regarding how men were used in advertisements. You write that women were consumers and men sat in judgment. Katherine Parkin: It's certainly true. Um, the advertisers time, and again, put women in the position of needing to please men and showed men and boys sitting in judgment of women. Did they provide the right foods? Did they do it quickly enough? Did they provide the right foods? Uh, were they, uh, manly enough? Uh, they they're a whole host of, of ways in which they were supposed to provide for men and men were very clearly going to weigh in about what they thought about what had been provided. Bob Edwards: So even young boys got to boss around mom in some of these ads. Katherine Parkin: Absolutely. Uh, one ad had a young boy, uh, dressed up in his cowboy, get up saying fork over some grub, Pronto. You know, it's really this idea that boys can, can boss around their mothers. And although you might think, well, he's just a young child. Girls never demand food. Bob Edwards: There's a Campbell soup ad in here. You have a, it's a print ad. You've reproduced. When a man says it's good. It is good. Katherine Parkin: they really, uh, present themselves, uh, present men as the authority, as the ones to, to tell you and women are having to shop and cook with that idea, um, weighing over them. And advertisers are planning on that. They're counting on men being the ones to sell the products. And so, even though here's a man featured in an ad, he's not targeted to men, he's targeted to the women, reminding them that they need to buy this product to please men. Otherwise they're going to disappoint them and they won't get those kisses. Bob Edwards: This guy looks about 55 years old. He's in a three piece suit and a neck tie trust a man to know good soup when he tastes it. If there's one thing he's Frank about it is the food he eats. Yes. To Frank sometimes to a woman's way of thinking. Whoa. Katherine Parkin: yeah, they don't hold any punches. I mean, you could laugh now, but what did it mean to see that ad and be told that men are the authority and know what good soup is? Weren't the ones, women, the ones cooking in the kitchen. Weren't they, the ones making 21 meals a week, but men are the ones put in judgment, having the authority to decide what was good and what wasn't Bob Edwards: . This is a good one. Mother never ran out of Kellogg's corn flex. Katherine Parkin: One of my favorites um, this ad, uh, really captures, um, one of the central ideas, which is that wives have a very hard time measuring up to mothers. Um, so mothers get criticized, but, um, wives are often put in a position of not knowing how to do it, right. That the care that mothers had given their sons could never be replicated or achieved. And they were gonna constantly disappoint men. And this ad captures that perfectly, that, um, that women weren't ever going to get it right. And it also captures the portrayal of men as completely immature and demanding and unreasonable, like Bob Edwards: The one for Sharafs fish cakes. Why husbands leave home? Katherine Parkin: Absolutely. The food, uh, the frozen food industry takes this very, uh, menacing attitude towards women, um, trying to scare them into buying their frozen foods. Uh, the frozen food industry was quite nervous that not enough people were going to buy their products as they introduced them in the middle of the 20th century. And they decided, instead of trying to sell it as a, uh, as tasting good or, um, uh, the, the quality of it, they decide to go for this fear tactic that if women don't buy their product, their husbands are gonna leave them. Bob Edwards: Yes. He gets home from a typically miserable day at the office. And what does he find love? Tender hugs and kisses. No such thing. He finds a scribbled note and there in the freezer, nestled among the roasts , let's face it run of the mill frozen meals don't do right by him or you. Well, Katherine Parkin: the note says that there's a meal already ready? The kids are in bed. He doesn't have to do anything all used to do, and she's taken all this care for him, but he still has the authority to, to be angry and disappointed with her. Bob Edwards: So you go down to the corner Tavern at that point, I think . So when did this approach to women, um, begin to wane Katherine Parkin: It? Didn't Bob Edwards: It didn't oh, you don't see the stuff now. Katherine Parkin: I certainly do. Um, as I look at food advertising today, I find the same messages, the same authority of men weighing in the same use of sexuality, uh, still trying to socialize young children into their appropriate gender roles. Um, and certainly the love is still prevalent in the food advertising. Bob Edwards: How so? Katherine Parkin: Well, one of the things that happened in the late 20th century is that advertisers kind of shied away from presenting women in their ads. They took some criticism, um, for the portrayal of women. So they first pulled back, uh, to just showing hands with manicured nails and the requisite wedding ring, and then took women out of the ads, but then turned to making their, um, taglines and their messages overtly about love. So adds for peanut butter and, uh, frozen foods. And McDonald's all of these, uh, companies began to use love in their, in their advertising and to, um, directly appeal to mothers that mothers know best. Bob Edwards: Do you see any lasting effects of these gender roles in young women today? Katherine Parkin: I think absolutely. Um, I think the, that young women continue to be targeted with these ads. Advertisers didn't leave it to chance that young girls would grow up into a role where they would please men. They targeted them, uh, in advertisements throughout the 20th century and into the 21st century. Um, no boys magazines. Would you ever pick up and see food ads unless it was for beef jerky or, uh, potato chips, but, but girls are being sold on the idea that they need to ma be good cooks to be able to attract a man and to be, to be able to get married, Bob Edwards: Unless you eat all that food and how attractive will you be at that point? Katherine Parkin: well, they certainly have a problem. Food advertisers try to sell food, but they, uh, even as they try to sell diet foods, they need you to buy a product to lose weight. Um, and that's something they wrestle with, uh, in their, in their advertising. For sure. Bob Edwards: Thank you very much. Katherine Parkin: Thank you very much. Carnation Ad: On behalf of teeny bikinis skin, tight slacks and backless facts. Carnation introduces the doit yourself diet plan, the safe, delicious way to get you back in the swim of things quickly. Bob Edwards: Katherine Parkin she's the author of food is love advertising and gender roles in modern America. It's published by the university of Pennsylvania press Carnation Ad: Because while they're looking at your suit, they'll be seeing you. Bob Edwards: The Bob Edwards shows produced by Tish Malva. Chad Campbell, Andy Daniel, Phil Harold, Steve lty, ed McNulty, Jeffrey Reddick, Jim Rosenberg, Sheey Tillman, and Sam Wright. Our email address is Bob at XM radio.com tomorrow songwriter, Leonard Cohen, Leonard Cohen: Everybody. I know. Musicians talk about chops having chops, but I only have one, Bob Edwards: One chop. Leonard Cohen: I have one shot that that very few people can do. Bob Edwards: Do you recycle your chalk very often? Leonard Cohen: Uh, well, I I'd like to use it for every song, but I think people would catch on everybody talking to their pockets. Everybody Suboxone chocolate, long stem rose. They by Bob Edwards: Thanks for listening. This is XPR channel 1 33 Leonard Cohen: That your love, everybody knows that you've really do. Everybody knows that you've been faithful. God, give Lord.